From: "Tep Sastri" <tepsastri@…>
Date:  Mon Jan 13, 2003  11:14 pm
Subject:  Satipatthana Sutta

 Tep: There is a minor point I'd like to make about a difference between "asubha kammathan" and "awareness of  death". To do this let me use excerpts from the discourse on Satipatthana and Visuddhimaaga as follows.

The Way of Mindfulness: The Satipatthana Sutta and Its Commentary by Soma Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/bps/misc/wayof.html#cemetery

The Sutta contains the following topics:

I. The Contemplation of Body: Mindfulness of Breathing; The Modes of Deportment; The Four Kinds of Clear Comprehension; The Reflection on the Repulsiveness of the Body; The Reflection on the Modes of Materiality (Elements, Dhatu); Cemetery Contemplations.

II. The Contemplation of Feeling

III. The Contemplation of Consciousness

IV. The Contemplation of Mental Objects (1. The Five Hindrances; 2. The Five Aggregates of Clinging; 3. The Six Internal and the Six  External Sense-bases; 4. The Seven Factors of Enlightenment; 5. The  Four Truths.)
 

*Cemetery Contemplation 1 (Note: there are 9 Contemplations)

 
 "And further, O bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu, in whatever way, sees a body dead, one, two, or three days: swollen, blue and festering, thrown into the charnel ground, he thinks of his own body thus: 'This body of mine too is of the same nature as that body, is going to be like that body and has not got past the condition of becoming like that body.' "Thus he lives contemplating the body in the body internally... and clings to naught in the world."

The Cemetery Contemplation 1, which I mentioned in the previous message, is called "asubha kammathana" in the Visuddhimagga; while the "awareness of death" that you talked about is called "mindfulness of death". Please note that Mindfulness of Death (using death as the object of mindfulness) is not a part of the Sati-Patthana Sutta.

Please compare this passage from the Maha-satipatthana Sutta with the 'cemetery contemplations' above, you will see that it is part of the kayanupassana satipatthana, as found in Digha Nikaya 22  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/digha/dn22.html

"Furthermore, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground -- one day, two days, three days dead -- bloated, livid, & festering, he applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate'...

"Or again, as if he were to see a corpse cast away in a charnel ground, picked at by crows, vultures, & hawks, by dogs, hyenas, & various other creatures... a skeleton smeared with flesh & blood, connected with tendons... a fleshless skeleton smeared with blood, connected with tendons... a skeleton without flesh or blood, connected with tendons... bones detached from their tendons, scattered in all directions -- here a hand bone, there a foot bone, here a shin bone, there a thigh bone, here a hip bone, there a back bone, here a rib, there a chest bone, here a shoulder bone, there a neck bone, here a jaw bone, there a tooth, here a skull... the bones whitened, somewhat like the color of shells... piled up, more than a year old... decomposed into a powder: He applies it to this very body, 'This body, too: Such is its nature, such is its future, such its unavoidable fate.' [End quote]

Similarly, you can check with the following excerpt from the Visuddhimagga:

 "Asubha kammathana uses 10 kinds of foulness (bloated, livid,..., skeleton) for signs (nimittas) to arise with the 10 foulnesses as their support, and for the jhanas obtained in the signs." (Visuddhimagga: The Path of Purification, page 174. BPS Pariyatti Publication 1999 Edition.)

So you see, I think it is another perspective, or another way to study one's 'body'; or what paramatthadhamma taken for the body, external or internal, live or dead.

From my studies, the arammanas of samatha bhavana are quite limited, but vipassana can have any paramathadhamma as object, even akusala cittas that have just fallen away. All realities that arise at the present moment can be experienced fully to add to panna, which must thoroughly know the realities around us in order be able to eradicate the kilesas attached to or averted to the objects, through the elimination of ignorance about their true tilakkhanas.

 

From: From: "Tep Sastri" <tepsastri@…>
Date:  Wed Jan 22, 2003  1:56 pm
Subject:  Re: Dhatus
 

Firstly the citta, no matter how powerful, must fall away, can akusala cittas arise continuously 24 hours a day?

 
Tep: Kilesas like nivaranas will finally subside for sure. But one's valuable time is also lost in the process; besides, akusala cittas are not desirable, even for a moment.

That is true, but as long as we are still putujanas, indeed as long as we are any level short of arahantship, the anusayas will remain. This may be painful to realize, but it can also motivate us to try and extinguish the fire on our heads as fast as we can since we don't really know how much time we have left to study the teachings, I believe.

Tep: Nivaranas will arise again and often, because they are persistent and powerful. So they must be dealt with immediately by the right tools taught by our Lord Buddha. Once we are more skillful in handling the kilesas we will be able to condition kusala cittas to arise again far more rapidly than before. And, I believe, this is the purpose of learning the right tool for the right task at hand. For example, from my studies I have not seen any Sutta that recommends vipassana as the way for clearing one's mind from drowsiness. Have you?

In my opinion, all mention of awareness, presence of mind and keeping sati before one inherent in all the teachings point to the heart of the Sasana, namely the Satipatthana Sutta which is vipassana or development of panna. Pali is a very precise language, in my multi-language dictionary:
 

Vipassana (f.) seeing clearly, spiritual insight, insight on three characteristics; [the five purifications: purification of view, purification by overcoming doubt, purification by knowledge and vision of what the path  and is not the path, purification by knowledge and vision, are in the 'trunk' (of vipassana) (Visu. 3/205)]. Skt vipasayana, vidarsana.

In fact if one looks at the very long Mahaparinibbana Sutta, satipatthana is present throughout, in fact he practically only taught satipatthana in that sutta.

Secondly, while there is akusala anusayas, in other words, while we are still putujanas or even ariyans that aren't arahants, there would still be akusala arising, if of different strengths. Nivaranas are especially obstructive to jhana practices, and not vipassana, which can know them as they arise, therefore for that split second they can't arise since kusala can't arise with akusala at the same time, so when there is sati and panna there is no nivarana possible, although when there are conditions they will arise again, to be known again by satipatthana or not.

 
Tep:  Nivaranas are obstructive and destructive to concentration (samadhi or jhana) practices as well as vipassana practice, which also requires a clear and focused mind to benefit the most from the practice. To know nivaranas each time when they arise does not seem to be possible when they are dormant or when the mind is weakened by them.

Panna is to know things as they really are, not to shut them out as in samatha practices. How can you know what to eliminate if you don't know precisely their characteristics? Even kilesas must be known as they are, although when they are dormant, as when suppressed by jhana cittas, they wouldn't appear. Satipatthana must be aware of whatever is arising, and at the moments of jhana the true characteristics of jhana can be object of satipatthana that can arise right after. Even jhanas are not us or ours, they must fall away, gone forever, they too have tilakkhana as do all things that arise and fall away, as do the kilesas, as do the rupas. A weakened mind also falls away, as will sleepiness and all realities, in fact, except nibbana.

 
Tep: You may be able to catch them once in a while, if they are not too strong, but you will be carried away by them (like a big flood!) several other times. I also practice vipassana and understand well why clear and focused mind is absolutely necessary before a lasting mindfulness can arise. Notice that when you are sleepy there is no working sati.

This is because we are still not arahants who have eradicated all anusayas, we can't deny that most of the time we do have lots of kilesas arising. That is why it is so important to cultivate panna and other kusalas like the brave soldiers who must be well trained in order to fight the great hordes of cowardly ones. Kusala and akusala can't arise together, although they can alternate. What may seem like lasting mindfulness is composed of single cittas that arise and fall away also, and if during that time there is thinking or bodily feelings or hearing, there must also be countless bhavanga cittas in between the processes also, according to my studies.

 
Tep: It is amazing how you manage to put the Buddha's eight-step approach to deal with sleepiness into the vipassana basket.

Didn't you find it inherent in the text? As I said, vipassana is the heart of the Buddha's teachings otherwise he wouldn't have said satipatthana is the only way.

 
Tep: To me these eight steps are simple and most direct for any person, young or old, buddhist or not, with or without knowledge of vipassana bhavana. The first step is easiest to do: just don't think about the thought that makes you sleepy. If this does not work because the drowsiness is still strong, then engage your mind in something difficult that require mental energy to alert it (solving a puzzle is another example), and so on. If everything failed then you'd need a rest, but don't sleep too long since you have work to do.

To me that seems to oversimplify it a bit, since the text says precisely ''not give attention and not dwell on that thought'' I also said, below, 'Please note that it is not to keep the thought from arising, but 'at whatever thought drowsiness befalls you, to that thought you should not give attention and not dwell on that thought.' In other words one can't pick or choose but to let satipatthana know that from conditions, and not 'dwell' on anything.'

Tep: Please study the following article at  http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/onetool.html. Please read it carefully and let me know how you like it. I believe this excellent article will help end our differences. Other readers will also greatly benefit from it as well.

I have the greatest respect for the venerable for all his work in translating the texts into English, such great kusala that benefits so many, for which I anumodana very much indeed.  Just as an example of how I find the article, let us look at this passage:

'There's a passage, for instance, describing ***three ways*** in which samatha and vipassana can work together to lead to the knowledge of Awakening: either samatha precedes vipassana, vipassana precedes samatha, or they develop in tandem (AN IV.170). The wording suggests an image of two oxen pulling a cart: one is placed before the other or they are yoked side-by-side.'  [*** my addition to the original texts]

My love for going straight to the text led me to read the above reference material, (AN IV.170): Anguttara Nikaya IV.170 Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem

"On one occasion Ven. Ananda was staying in Kosambi, at Ghosita's monastery. There he addressed the monks, Friends!

"Yes, friend, the monks responded.

"Ven. Ananda said: 'Friends, whoever -- monk or nun -- declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of ***four paths.*** Which four?'  [End Quote]

As you have seen, the author of the article said there were three ways, while the article translated by the same person and referred to by him says four. What is missing?

"There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it -- his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed. This seems to be the one that he refers to as 'There's a passage, for instance, describing ***three ways*** in which samatha and vipassana can work together to lead to the knowledge of Awakening: either samatha precedes vipassana'

 "Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity preceded by insight. As he develops tranquillity preceded by insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it -- his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

This would be the one he says is 'vipassana precedes samatha,' as follows:
 

"Then there is the case where a monk has developed tranquillity in tandem with insight. As he develops tranquillity in tandem with insight, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it -- his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

This would be the one he describes as 'or they develop in tandem'. The wording suggests an image of two oxen pulling a cart: one is placed before the other or 'they are yoked side-by-side.' But his explanations end here, while the sutta that he translated and used as reference, even providing the link to in his article, continues.

"Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it -- his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

*** In other words, through khanika samadhi, in satipatthana practice which is the development of the eightfold path minus the three virati cetasikas, which then makes it the fivefold path. This is vipassana alone, (please note that there is no method with samatha alone) although vipassana does incorporate samatha as one of the fivefold path that satipatthana develops whenever it arises. "Whoever -- monk or nun -- declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of these ***four*** paths."

Don't you think his conclusions are wrong? Would you yourself say, on reading this sutta, that ''There's a passage, for instance, describing ***three ways*** in which samatha and vipassana can work together to lead to the knowledge of Awakening: either samatha precedes vipassana, vipassana precedes samatha, or they develop in tandem (AN V.170). The wording suggests an image of two oxen pulling a cart: one is placed before the other or they are yoked side-by-side.''? I think we must be very careful to respect the texts when we study them, and go to the source as much as possible, in my case nothing is comparable to the Tipitaka.

From: "Tep Sastri" <tepsastri@…>
Date:  Sat Jan 25, 2003  12:02 pm
Subject:  Re: Dhatus

Tep: The at-least-a-thousand-year-old discussion (and, sometimes, argument) about which of the following is the best: 'vipassana alone', or 'samatha alone', or a 'combination of the two', is still continuing today. Why? It is because only those without bhavanamayapanna do not know the right answer and have to turn to a book, a monk, or the Tipitaka. Unfortunately, the more we read the Tipitaka the more we'll discover that some Suttas seem to prefer one method ('way' or 'path') over the others; this is true at least from my own experience. So which Suttas are wrong or should not be taken seriously? We certainly cannot answer this question and so should not make a judgment on just one or two Suttas. Even the translation of the Tipitaka (Pali to Thai or Pali to English) is not always consistent and a very careful reader sometimes gets confused.

My only objection here is not to get the sources mixed up or to misquote the Tipitaka. People can have any beliefs, as long as they can tell which is in the Tipitaka and which is not, otherwise they can never understand the panna of the Buddha as opposed to what Muhammad, for example, or the Bible, taught. I would think we are all here because we are interested in Buddhism of the Theravada tradition, as recorded in the Tipitaka/ancient commentaries. Any other sources are most welcome, including the Koran or the Talmud, but one must keep the reference material correctly identified, for the studies to be useful and interesting.

Could you please give an example where the Tipitaka prefers one method ('way' or 'path') over the others? I have never found any discrepancies on this matter myself, although I haven't read the entire text.
 

Tep: Quite a few Thai monks whom I have talked to (about the confusions I have found) always advise me not to "read too much", but to "do it" until you "know it yourself". What they meant was for me to develop bhavanamayapanna from samatha and vipassana as a system as described in Maha Satipatthana Sutta.

Unfortunately, the more we read the Tipitaka the more we'll discover that some Suttas seem to prefer one method ('way' or 'path') over the others; this is true at least from my own experience. So which Suttas are wrong or should not be taken seriously? We certainly cannot answer this question and so should not make a judgment on just one or two Suttas. Even the translation of the Tipitaka (Pali to Thai or Pali to English) is not always consistent and a very careful reader sometimes gets confused.

I think it is useful to remember that in the Buddha's own times there were monks like his own cousin Devadata who taught miccha ditthi, and one should always check with the Tipitaka no matter what one hears. It is true that once you know the basics you should apply the teachings in your life, where book learning is secondary. But without knowing what the citta, cetasikas and rupas are, or what panna knows, I don't think any bhavana of the level that eradicates kilesas is possible. As I said, samatha or ekaggata cetasika is developed along with the other four cetasikas every time satipatthana arises, in fact with all the great kusala cetasikas that must accompany all kusala cittas with panna knowing realities as they really are.
 

Tep: I know myself very well that my best panna level is only Cintamayapanna and, therefore, any understanding I have now is mostly from pure reasoning or logical deduction. It would be a grave mistake to be overconfident at this level.

Buddhism stresses the fact that overconfidence is dangerous. In the commentaries, however, cintamayapanna is possible to the Buddha but rarely to us, who are savakas [those who listen] and have to rely on his discoveries. If panna could arise from just thinking, we would not need a Buddha at all. In fact we have so many sasanas, why do some people have to claim that they know what the Buddha taught and then change his teachings to accommodate their own views, to justify their ideas? Why not just start a new sasana?
 

Tep: Ven. Ananda elaborated on the 'four paths' leading towards Arahantship. Specifically, he described the fourth one as follows (thank you for your finding that even a skillful monk overlooked): "Then there is the case where a monk's mind has its restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control. There comes a time when his mind grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated. In him the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it -- his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed."

You said confidently and decisively: "This is vipassana alone, [please note that there is no method with samatha alone] although vipassana does incorporate samatha as one of the fivefold path that satipatthana develops whenever it arises." But I am not so sure that the fourth one is just 'vipassana alone'!

Let's interpret the wordings of Ven. Ananda, while trying to be unbiased as much as we possibly can. There are several things that are not clear here.

Point 1.) Did he talk about a monk who was a novice (a new comer, still a putujana), lacking Jhana (please observe that Right Concentration in the Eightfold Path means attaining all four Jhanas) and not well established in Sila?
Point 2.) Did he talk about a monk who never practiced samatha or who attained only Khanika Samadhi?
Point 3.) Did he talked about a monk who was a sotapanna? What method did the monk use to put the 'restlessness concerning the Dhamma [Comm: the corruptions of insight] well under control'?
Point 4.) Did he mean that whenever this monk's mind "grows steady inwardly, settles down, and becomes unified & concentrated" it was because the monk used 'vipassana alone' to accomplish it?

I cannot answer any of these questions because there is no evidence from Ven. Ananda's words for me to make any bold and overconfident conclusion.

I don't know that he overlooked what he translated himself, but I do object to the misquotation despite the correct translation. Everyone can study and believe any teachings one wants, according to our accumulations, but one must be straight to the source, to my mind. This reminds me of another pair of suttas, which are also on the excellent site 'Access to Insight';
 

Anguttara Nikaya II.23 Abhasita Sutta: What Was Not Said

"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata."

Anguttara Nikaya II.25 Neyyattha Sutta: A Meaning to be Inferred

"Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains a discourse whose meaning needs to be inferred as one whose meaning has already been fully drawn out. And he who explains a discourse whose meaning has already been fully drawn out as one whose meaning needs to be inferred. These are two who slander the Tathagata."

These are great reminders when quoting anyone, especially the Buddha as in the Theravada Tipitaka to my mind.

 (Answering Point 1.) I don't pretend to know the Venerable's mind, but what about people like the venerable Sariputta who followed the venerable Assaji and became a sotapanna when he heard the dhamma? He didn't have time for any type of samatha but for khanika samadhi *as he listened*. The same for Visakha who was only a teenager who became a sotapanna as the Buddha taught her the dhamma when she first greeted him, right in the presence of her family and the Bhikkhus who were with the Buddha. The Buddha also never taught anyone that it was necessary to leave home and do formal practice otherwise a higher panna will not be attained, while in the Samatha sutta in the end one must also have the four basis of mindfulness, namely kayanupassana, vedananupassana, cittanupassana or dhammanupassana satipatthana in order to be able to eradicate kilesas permanently.

(Answering Point 2.) It is impossible to have highly developed panna and not have sila well established, at least the moment panna arises the sila would be automatically pure and strong. As is explained in the Maha Catarissaka Sutta, [also accessible at Access to Insight] panna leads to all other kusalas.

(Answering Point 3.) In my opinion he did. As he said, there are four ways. If there were only three, this last would not have been mentioned, and the translator would have been right. As it is can you tell us what you think the fourth way is?

(Answering Point 4.) Absolutely. Satipatthana [Please note there are no samathipatthana] is the only way, ekayana magga.
 

From: "Tep Sastri" <tepsastri@…>
Date:  Mon Jan 27, 2003  12:37 pm
Subject:  Re: Dhatus

Tep: I mentioned in previous message about some "inconsistencies" I had found in some Suttas that were confusing to me and you challenged me to prove it. Well, I will just give one strong example this time.
 

Extracts from the Suttas: The Path to Enlightenment Dhp 273-276 (Dhammapada)  http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebsut041.htm
 

 "Of paths, the eightfold is best. Of truths, the four sayings. Of qualities, dispassion. Of two-footed beings, the one with the eyes to see.  Just this is the path - there is no other - to purify vision. Follow it, and that will be Mara's bewilderment.  Following it, you put an end to suffering and stress. I have taught you this path for knowing the extraction of arrows.  It's for you to strive ardently. Tathagatas simply point out the way. Those who practice, absorbed in jhana: from Mara's bonds they'll be freed."

Tep: My Questions to You: Why is there "only one path" to purify vision and for "knowing the extraction of arrows", not four, not even the Satipatthana path ("The only way")? Are these Buddha's words contradicting to Maha-Satipatthana Sutta? Is this a contradiction to the other Sutta (Anguttara Nikaya IV.170 Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem )?  Hint: An answer to my questions above may be found by reading the following Note. Observe the word "inconsistencies" and "self-contradiction" in the Note.

A Note on Dhammapada

(Excerpted from 'The Living Message of the Dhammapada' Bhikkhu Bodhi, Buddhist Publication Society Bodhi Leaves BL 129)  http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebsut037.htm
 

"The Dhammapada is a work familiar to every devout Buddhist and to every serious student of Buddhism. This small collection of 423 verses on the Buddha's doctrine is so rich in insights that it might be considered the perfect compendium of the Dhamma in its practical dimensions." .... ....

"It is well known that during his teaching career the Buddha always adjusted his discourses to fit the needs and capacities of his disciples. Thus the prose discourses found in the four main Nikayas display richly variegated presentations of the doctrine, and this diversity becomes even more pronounced in the Dhammapada, a collection of utterances spoken in the intuitive and highly charged medium of verse. We even find in the work apparent inconsistencies, which may perplex the superficial reader and lead to the supposition that the Buddha's teaching is rife with self-contradiction."

Thank you for the information provided, let us look at the main question again, you said above, 'My Questions to You: Why is there only one path, not four, not the  Satipatthana path ("The only way")? Are these Buddha's words contradicting to Maha-Satipatthana Sutta? Is this a contradiction to  the other Sutta ?'

 Let us look at the Mahasatipatthana Sutta as translated in  Digha Nikaya 22 Maha-satipatthana Sutta: The Great Frames of Reference
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/digha/dn22.html

"I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in the Kuru country. Now there is a town of the Kurus called Kammasadhamma. There the Blessed One addressed the monks, "Monks." "Venerable sir," the monks replied.

"The Blessed One said this: "This is the ***direct path*** for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding -- in other words, the four frames of reference. Which four?
 

 ***['Hohn tahng nii pen tii paii ahn ehg' in the Thai version]
[''Hohn tahng nii pen tahng diow' in the Sumagalavilasini, Commetary to this sutta]

"There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself -- ardent, alert, & mindful -- putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings... mind... mental qualities in & of themselves -- ardent, alert, & mindful -- putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world.

[End quote]

In other words, the path consists of the four major anussatis which can also be subdivided further, just like to say there are only namas and rupas, but the namas consists of many kinds of namas; the same applies to the rupas, depending on the macro or micro perspective. In engineering terms I believe you might say most humans live in homes, but there are many kinds of houses and dwellings indeed.  All the anussatis possible are covered by the unique path of satipatthana, it is the unique and only bhavana that can transcend samsara, otherwise the Buddha would not have said so.